How To Be A Peacemaker In The Community | Beyond The Lines Ep. 10

What does it mean to be a peacemaker? Can you be a peacemaker in your community? Being a peacemaker can be a scary thing to start. Diana Oestreich has walked this path and shares how you can make an impact in your community with peace.

On this week's episode of the Beyond The Lines podcast we are joined by Author, Activist, and Peacemaker Diana Oestreich. Join us as she shows us what it looks like to wage peace and how the us versus them dynamic is a false choice.

More from Diana: https://www.dianaoestreich.com

Get access to exclusive content and watch the video podcast on our YouTube! www.youtube.com/channel/UC6sLXxSC0KKjrqL1cq6080g 

Transcript

DJ Heyward: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Beyond Lines Podcast. We're in a world of so much hate, so much tension. We want to learn how to love of beyond the lines. We all have these lines in the sand where we don't want to past this line where we can't love this person past this line, where that person is over there and we can't touch them at all.

And that's what we want to talk about in the things that we want a conversate about. So thank you for joining us. My name is Pastor DJ Heyward. Uh, this is, uh, Jonathan Miller on my, on my right. And the wonderful and the awesome Diana Ostriech on my left. And, um, they have, we're going to have a fun conversation.

I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Um, I read your book, which is right here, uh, Waging Peace. Um, and man, I was really challenged by how you took this, uh, posture that you're going to love people who are different than you, that you didn't understand. And you really had to walk through some really hard things.

And so I want to start there, um, let's talk about some of the, some of the things that you had to rectify or come through in your life, um, to kind of get to the place where you are today. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:01:03] That is such a good question. I have like six different places I could start, but just to give you a little bit, cause I think

oftentimes, we just need to acknowledge where we're located in our culture and in our world. And so my culture was a really small rural town of 8,000 people in Minnesota. I went to a cute little country Baptist church about 50 people, and that's really where I learned to love God. Um, and I also learned that

the world is pretty black and white. So, you know, if people then vote like us, then they were obviously wrong. And if people worshiped down the street in a different building than us, um, then you know, they weren't doing it the right way. And if people didn't baptize the way we did then, um, so I look back now and I really, I really learned to love God, and I really love the people

who taught me a lot about, um, about faith. And as I've gotten older, I realized that I, I was given a black and white view of the world that was pretty exclusive. Um, and that made it really hard for me to see other people's humanity. It, it ma it made it really easy for me to disconnect. Um, God's concern.

For people who voted differently or were, or like had a different kind of faith or just like lived across town. Um, so I could just really disconnect myself from God's love and concern for how they're doing. Um, if violence is happening against them. All of that really changed when I was deployed to the Iraq War at 23 years old.

So you guys, you guys look very young to me. And so at 23, I was an adult. Like I knew what I knew, you know, like I, my perspectives were just really the truest true there was really because I had been handed these for. Oh. And I should tell you that I was a third generation army veteran. So my mom and my dad served in the military and my uncles, my cousins, my grandpa.

Our family tree was a little bit of an American flag pole. Um, it was, it was just part of our culture. Yeah. Um, so I had joined the military to pay for college when I was 17. So. By the time I had, I was pretty much done with my six years of enlistment. And that's when the U S started the preemptive strike, or we didn't declare war in Iraq.

We just preemptively, uh, mobilized like a hundred thousand troops overnight. And mine, little national guard unit was one of those. And so I found myself thrown into a war at 23 when I thought I was an adult, you know, and now I look back at it. I'm like, baby, like just a baby. Um, but I was thrown into a war overnight and I was a combat medic.

So I had, um, responsibilities to keep my a hundred soldiers alive in my, in my company. So. One of the first things we did when we got there. Um, we were going to convoy into enemy territory. And the night before we were going to go, we were getting our last safety briefing. And at the very end of, of the talk, the Sergeant said, I hope you understand that one of the tactics of the enemy is that they push a little Iraqi children in front of American trucks in order to slow down or stop the convoy.

And then they ambush the soldiers at the rear. Mm. He said, I hope you understand your duty to keep the content we rolling at all costs tomorrow. If you can't do your duty and if you can't keep the convoy rolling, um, stand up now and identify yourself. And I remember just sitting there and like what he said, just like was suspended in the air.

Like I understood it, but I couldn't put it together. You know, like I couldn't imagine running over a child. Um, and at the same time, I really believe that soldiers made sacrifices and really the place that I grew up taught me that if I was serving the country America, then it was like, I was serving God. And so if I took a life for my country, it was ultimately taking a life for God.

So I had this, like, so I walked out of the tent and, you know, he said dismissed. So I didn't really have to decide, like, what am I going to do? Am I going to stand up and say, I can't do this and be branded a traitor and a coward, or am I going to go along with us? And so before I had to make a decision just dismissed and we all left, but that was the first time that in my life that I,

I had a viewpoint. I had a truth that I was actually having to look at, who is at the other end and of this, of this belief I had. And I'd really think about that. Um, cause it's going to happen tomorrow. So I had like eight hours to, um, to make a decision that I knew would change me forever. Like I knew there was no going back from this, but this is the, like the very first time that I really felt like,

I was wrestling with my own beliefs, you know, cause this was fine, but inside like something was pushing back. And so I just laid on my cot and did like the most pitiful prayer on the planet where I just remember laying there with tears kind of silent. Cause you know, there's over the people in the tent.

And I remember just saying like, oh God, oh God help me. And then like I just out of nowhere really felt like I heard like God's voice come at me like a racketball where it just pings back at you. And I just heard Diana. I love them too. 

DJ Heyward: [00:06:47] Wow. How did that shake you? 

Diana Ostriech: [00:06:50] Well in 

a minute, I just felt like the tension melted.

Like I just felt like there was this peace because deep down I knew it was true. Like I had learned that like, God is love. And I learned that Jesus calls us to love our enemies. So like there was this truth in it that I just was like, oh, like, that's true. Yeah. But I was like, wait, wait a second. God. I'm like, we believe in this.

Okay, God. But I feel like God is really standing in front of my own beliefs and asking me to do something different. So that was really the first time that I felt a tension between what my country was asking of me and what God was requiring. 

Jon Miller: [00:07:29] Yeah. And that's man, that is a, I mean, you've already described it, but that's a hard decision to make anyways.

Learning about the war going on and about the enemies you're hearing about men with guns shooting at each other. You're not thinking I'm going to go have to run over a child and make that decision. Like, that's not what you're told about war when you've never been a part of it. That's not the reality that you think is going on.

Is that you have to, the soldiers have to make a decision to take a child's life who has not made any decision about war. They just either been shoved into it, or, you know, they, you know, they've been impressioned or something along those lines. Wow, that, that just that, and that was like pretty much the opening of your book too.

It's like that decision that's there and it's not something I ever thought about, about war. I don't know what I would choose, you know, because I think that. The reason they're saying that, and you would agree with this is because they don't want the guys at the back to all die. Right. But to be ambushed and die, that's a decision it's like, okay, choose between the guys on your team or this child, you know, how do you make that decision. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:08:43] And quite an impossible choice to be put in.

Whose life will you take and who's life will you protect? And not in a theoretical check the box theology way, but, um, but I had to make that re that was the reality of it. And so I think that that was like the first time that God was really helping me see the person I'd been told to see as my enemy the person. I'd been told to see as collateral damage. The person that I've been told to not count the cost of their life. These when it comes to like my guy's life or your guys' life, there's people that we just ignore and don't count,

that their lives matter that their lives are just as sacred and that God is cradling their future. Um, and he has just as many hopes for them, for mercy and forgiveness and redemption as he's holding for me. And so I think that was like, this is the beginning of this like, you know, this just. Shift of where all of a sudden I could see people and God had told me that he loves them.

So what do you do except for agree with a God who created every single person that like, yeah, I think he does actually love the mining. I don't love them, but I do think that God loves them. And so that just shifted my eyeballs and it shifted my allegiance. It really did change things for me. And yet I was still a soldier in middle of the war and nothing, you know, like I couldn't change where I was and I couldn't change what was required of me.

But the freedom that I feel like God gave me was that he gave me a way to show up in the middle of the impossible and we don't get to choose, what will happen to us. We won't get to choose with that circumstances, but our freedom as like life people is we get to choose if we will be on the side of life and, and says like, you can lose your life and not really lose.

Like, there are bigger things. Like I realized there was something more valuable to me than just staying alive. Like I can stay alive and do some bad things. Yeah. But like there was this life that already started. Yeah. God was really changing. So I went to war and I feel like God showed me the people who had really discounted and seen as my enemy.

And that really allowed me to, when I came back back from war to also recognize people that, you know, we don't like to say we have enemies, but there are people that we do not care for. And we do not see. And if they have problems, well, I guess it's their problem to fix. And if their kids aren't doing well, well, that's on you.

So it really allows me to like my faith that really separated me from people in my community. And now God brought me to a war and I could see who my enemy was there and decided that I could love instead of be fearful of them, then I could do that in my own community. And so that really has been the game changer.

I feel like my faith was pretty self-serving and pretty self-promoting and pretty segregated, um, from a lot of people. So I feel like, going to war and becoming a peacemaker was really how God, in a way, like gave me a life where I was just like staying alive, but I got this like life and this life to this full that wasn't I knew, I knew that even if I died the next day I was going to be okay, because I knew how it was showing up and what I was going to show up with God's love first and sacrifice, and I would never lose with that.

DJ Heyward: [00:12:13] Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. That's awesome. Diana. You're a mom and you're an author. You're, you're all over the place. And you wrote this wonderful book, uh, Waging Peace. And, um, we're not going to go too much into it. It's not a book review. So if you want to know what's inside the book, you have to get the book and read the book.

It's absolutely incredible. And well-written so thank you for putting your story down on paper so we can learn from, uh, one of the things that I was, I was reading it, uh, I was challenged, but also me and I was almost kind of worried for you. Cause there were some things that you were saying in there that wow, like some people may take that, um, in the, you know, the wrong way, like for your example, your struggle with who do I pledge allegiance to, you know?

So can you talk about some of those things that, um, that you know, that people can feel, um, Uh, defensive over what, what you're kind of stating. And, and how do you kind of walk through, um, with people like, Hey, here's what I'm trying to get at. Here's my heart behind what, what I'm trying to, what I'm trying to say.

Diana Ostriech: [00:13:18] I think it's such an important, because as you know, we are in the age of criticism. And, um, there's an indigenous elder in my city. And last year on Memorial day, he said this thing that was really profound. He said that we're in the age of quarrel or in quarreling is an old timey word for fighting. It's like, wow, Pete we're in the age of quarrel like people have their dukes up.

Like they're kind of like, itching itching to get into it with somebody. So like you said, DJ, there are things in my book that I know are really, um, they're really hard for people, but the reason that they're hard for people is that they create a tension of allegiance. And I, and I know this cause I feel it like I live that tension even now,

like nothing is easy and. I mean there's pain in that. But I think the truest thing that I know from, from war is that us versus them is a false choice. And so I feel like that is, that is the healing, that is the hope, that is the way on. That you can disagree with people's politics. You can disagree with whatever you want to.

But the end of the day, God requires us to show up with our love. He doesn't require us to have agreement. And so this idea that we're in two different camps, and if I. You know, and I always tell people, I'm like there's room at the table to be a Patriot and a peacemaker, but how, where I'm like my culture and I grew up, like peacemakers were like a dirty word.

There were people who didn't understand sacrifice. Didn't love America. And they just had bad character. Like you did not want to be called one. And so for me to sit here before you today and say like, God is calling me to be a peacemaker. Like, I know what that means. I know the cost of that. So I walk in one room and they know that I'm a combat veteran and, and they, and they offer me, you know, um, thanks or think, well, she deserves our respect.

Um, and then when I say I'm a peacemaker, all of a sudden I hear like all their goodwill come back and they're like bad, you know? And I was like, and the same person, like God made me the same person that I was, that I am today. And I hold both, both those things. So I, I understand, um, where people are coming from.

And I also want someone to. I wish someone would have invited me along, not condemn me, but just invited me along. And so, and then I go in other rooms and I'm like, I'm a peacemaker. And they're like, yeah. And then I'm like, and a soldier and they're like, baby killer. You know? So, so what I know to be true is this human instinct of self protection and saying us versus them, if you're for them, then you can't sit at our table.

I know that is such a superficial. Like small way to love. And I think that God has given us such a bigger table to love and yeah, it's going to be uncomfortable. And your friends might not like you because it's easy to be intimidated by your group because your group says, don't hang out with them or you, you don't belong here anymore.

And so in a lot of these places, I have been scared. There's one part where I talk about, um, going to a memorial for the pulse nightclub shooting, which that was the largest act of terrorism against the gay community in the U S that has ever happened. I believe over 50, 50 people were killed that night.

Yeah. Um, Going to, um, the, the LBGTQ community had asked the community to come and mourn with them. Um, and we showed up with my little kids. And what I really realized as I was sitting there listening to people's stories of not feeling safe of like going to school and they had two moms. And so they were getting beat up at school because they had two moms, you know, and that these clubs were some of the only places that they felt safe, like physically safe.

Um, I just remember feeling this overwhelming, like knowledge. I was more scared. Like I wasn't very, I wasn't as concerned about, um, gay people feeling loved as I was afraid of showing up at this event because I was afraid that my faith community would take my Jesus card away from me. Like I was more scared of being judged and how my group would treat me.

Then I cared that this group of people are hurting and then it was violent. Is going to follow them. Um, and that broke my heart. Cause I saw like what was most important to me, uh, how I was going to get treated and how I was going to be seen by my group and if, how, like that was putting myself first. And I really knew.

That I was supposed to love first. Like I like, that's what I was supposed to care for. I'm supposed to mourn with those who mourn. I'm supposed to be present. Like that's who God is. Um, it doesn't require an agreement to show up. And so it's just a little bit of truth telling with myself of there were places and people that I wasn't showing up for.

Because I wasn't putting the right thing first. 

DJ Heyward: [00:18:46] And when he created that us versus them mentality, or when you have that in your mind, like you don't, you don't ever have to walk towards anyone because they cause they're supposed to be over there. You know, that they're supposed to, um, oh, like, I mean, not saying, saying this, but like, oh, they they're, they're getting what they deserve because they are, they are on this wrong side of what I think God wants.

And it's like, well, here's the deal God has called us to love. And I think it's, you know, for us in the church, it's really easy to think that Jesus, if he would come back today and walk the earth like he did, um, all those years ago that he will come into a church. And I don't think that be the case. Um, he may have some choice words for us in the church, but I think he will go to those who are mourning in those hurting very much the same people that he went to, um, when he came the first time.

And I think we forget that, that we are supposed to be modeling that. And if us to model that we have to go to places where it may be uncomfortable. And for you talk about this idea of, uh, you're wanting to, to love people, you know, in their suffering and where they are. Like the only way that we can do that is if we go to them.

And I think it's easy, you know, being a pastor just to want people to come to us, to come inside the church building. And it's like, no, like there's times in my life, in all of our lives where we have to say, Hey, I'm going to go over there. I don't, I'm ignorant to what is going on over there, but I just see that there's a need there.

And how can Jesus use me only He knows, and I have to be open to that. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:20:23] Yeah. And I think that it's easy for us to forget that Jesus actually has a bias towards folks who are homeless, who are hungry, who are poor. Like he's actually saying these folks are being left out and I want you to care for them first.

And those people are still here today. And so, you know, just talking about, um, just my family, just kind of blackmailed ourselves that we are going to show up. So no longer did we only show up for people who voted like us, worship like us, all these things, you know, we were just like, ours was a, yes. That God had given us.

Like our faith is not a blank check of just presence. Didn't require agreement. We didn't have to know what's going on. Yeah. Um, so once we started to do that, you realize how many folks, um, who are in those positions. They're on the margins they're seen as disposable. They're the problem. Then you show up in person and you see, you're like, oh my gosh.

Like, like this is who God is like pointing us towards. This is who like should be our first concern. And you start to get a little, tell the truth on yourself. And so one of those truths was like, you know, our faith talks a lot about like, you should really notice people are homeless, the unsheltered. And I was like, well, Diana, do you know a single person name who's experiencing being unsheltered?

And you can guess what the answer was. It's a big, no. And so I found there's a Dorothy Day house, which is a Catholic worker house that offers hospitality, um, in my city for families that are experiencing, um, homelessness. And I was like, okay, And, um, so I showed up with my family with dinner one night, just so awkward, like just, it felt so stupid, but I knew that I knew that I didn't want to be a hearer of God's like, love.

I wanted to be a doer. And you can't love someone you don't know. Um, so I showed up and it was the hardest thing to sit around a table and not be there because the book club or because our kids go to school together, or because we're at a ministry together, like literally just people. Hanging out who happen to be experiencing different things.

Luckily, my kids were there and they're good icebreakers. So you're nervous. You have your kids very true, but we sat like we've been doing dinner there for two years now and now I know, um, I know my neighbors names and I know what it's and I have their perspective and I had just a poverty of perspective of like, what's it like to do life with three kids?

Um, not having your own home and not having a car and sharing a bedroom for a year. Wow. And, and I feel like, um, That people couldn't feel loved if I didn't even show up, but the minute that you do show up, you start to see the full picture and you start to care about your neighbors. And I got some great parenting advice and I think all these lines of us versus Lim, um, we're just missing each other's stories.

But when we show up together, we really are creating the kingdom of God. And so. Get honest with yourself. Like I got honest. I'm like, if you don't know anyone's name, you are certainly not loving them. Yeah. They can't feel loved. Um, and so that just kind of kept happening where you show up and you start to know people's names, then you start to hear like, well, how is it and why is it like that?

Um, and then we actually get to be part of building these new relationships between people who are separated, um, because we're born into a lot of different camps. 

Yeah. Hmm. 

DJ Heyward: [00:23:57] I think, um, You know, a lot of people can go on the other side where it's like, okay, There's so much wrong. I don't even know where to begin.

Like I felt like I was, I was feeling that way last summer, um, with the combination of, um, all the things that happened with George Floyd and all the things that was going on with politics and all the things that was going on with COVID and all the things that's going on with immigration, like all, all the things.

And it's like, I don't even know, like, where am I supposed to go? Like, who am I like, how can I make any impact? And then we get frozen. Um, how do you help people? Then what do people do? How do we take a step? Yes. I think that it is way simpler than, than we think it is. So I, I created a little bit of a map.

I call it my waging peace map and it's just four steps. And you write your name on it. You put it on the fridge and you just start. Cause I truly believe that our beginnings, are our finish lines. There can never be a finish line if you don't begin. Um, and I am teaching workshop here tomorrow night, maybe if you're on DJ, but we just, so the first thing is I tell people, just find the erase stories in your community.

So you'll find one thing. And I always say start with the people that Jesus pointed us towards. So those are the homeless, the hungry, the incarcerated does start there. All things intersect. They're actually like people tend to, if they're homeless, they've experienced violence and all these things kind of connect.

So, um, so I have this little four-step thing. It's on my website. It's free. I teach it. I want people to do it. Why? Because I believe that there's a better story. Long story short, you pick, you kind of see one thing that is there and then you pick one way to show up for that. So I just, in my city, there's a lot of things I show up for, but one of them that I'm committed to is, um, people were unsheltered.

So I show up with a, with a meal once a week and I'd be part of that community. Um, and I'm going to do that till every person in my city has shelter, because I believe that that's the kingdom of God. Like I believe in heaven, like nobody's unsheltered, so I'm going to do that. And it's super simple. So I make tacos on Tuesday, which is like a non cooking meal.

You don't really have to be a cook, but it is my commitment to show up and serve the people who are serving the homeless community and build relationship with people because, um, relationship was what changes us. Right. And so I'm going to keep doing that until every single person is sheltered, because I think that that is dignity and that is like the best thing I think is possible.

And I think God's got wild plans for our cities. So I'm going to keep doing that until everybody is sheltered or I die, but if I died tomorrow, I would never regret showing up for that. So I think lifetime commitments make it pretty simple because then you don't have to be worried about everything in your city, but you do show up for one thing.

And once you do, then you start to learn more and then people start calling you up for like, Hey, can you bring some tables? Yes, I can do that. Or like, Hey, we're having the birthday party. And when communities like invite you to celebrate, then you know that you've built some like, um, real, real relationship.

And I think that that's how we changing. So you don't have to get frozen by every issue, but you do have to choose one and you have to show up. And I think that's what really transforms us from kind of, frozen in the headlights or hearers of God's will, but not doers. So we just, and then like, we live into the next reality, you know, and when you can't just sit and like hashtag yourself to death, like human beings are so much more fun.

And I think that God's put it in us to actually experience stuff together and it'll change generations. So you committing neutral for one thing and your community will change your family and your friends because now these people matter. And now your friends have to deal with the fact that you care. Um, and I think generation, we're going to see the things we want to see happen.

And our kids are going to be proud of us that we didn't keep pushing off. Um, the things that God has asked us to care about to somebody else or a different, you know what I mean? Well, that'll get fixed someday. It's like, no, like I think God's asked us to like, co-create with him to partner in kingdom making and like, that's going to be where we, where we get to live the best.

Jon Miller: [00:28:26] So I have a follow-up question to that, but before I do, I think you mentioned a website. Yeah. What, what, what, what is your website so people can find, uh, 

Diana Ostriech: [00:28:33] um, it is DianaOstriech.com, which is tricky spelling you'll put it in the show notes.

Jon Miller: [00:28:43] You hear that you hear that Spencer, you're going to put it in there. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:28:47] I also just started, it's called the Waging Peace Project.

And it's exactly what you said, DJ of like, how can we take like a kindergarten class to a book club, to a church, to a civic group. Like they are the people that God's put in their community to actually grow the kingdom. So like, how do we do that? And then I just come and do the workshop and it's the four step process.

And I think people want to know that they get to be part of the good, like, we get really sad and hopeless when we don't feel like change is possible and despairing. And so I think, um, the Waging Peace project is a thing that just says, like, God has put you in your community for a time such as this. Wow. And that is hopeful.

DJ Heyward: [00:29:25] Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. 

Jon Miller: [00:29:29] And my follow-up maybe comment, question, uh, fill in the blank. I don't know. Um, yeah. Like I've heard so much talk too about like, we want to see the world change, but the way we're going to do it is through politics and getting the right people in power. What would you say? I mean, you're talking about not that's, that's like macro, you're talking like micro I'm going to do this personally, and it's not going to solve all of homelessness by myself, but I'm going to do it until I die.

And I think that's really awesome. What is there also value in the political side of things too? What, I'm not trying to get into politics, but I think sometimes that's where we stop. You know what I'm saying? Like we often stop at like, I'm going to get the right people that I consider to be the right people in power so that they can make the changes.

And then that's kind of my duty done. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:30:16] Yeah. I think it's definitely a both and. Yeah. I think we, um, we need to be, do tied in our time to the community, not just your church's ministry, cause guess what? The community knows churches care about their own stuff. What they are unsure about is if people in the church actually care about what's hurting them, their community.

Yeah. So I think have that local commitment and then also national and global I think it's definitely both and. Because I'm really glad that people elected officials to allow women to vote. Really glad they did that work. And they didn't just be well, just pray about it. It's like, no, I think that we really can create, um, societies that honor people's dignity.

And I think that we can't look away from that. So like more of that and politics is, um, part of the power we've been given to do that. So I think that we should do that. And you should also be putting your money where your mouth is. Like, um, there's this part, my favorite part in the Bible is Luke six, where Jesus kind of lays down.

He's just like, Hey, to you who are ready to hear the truth, I tell you love your enemies. And then he kind of says it again. And then a paragraph later he's like, Hey, why are you just nodding at me in Bible studies, but you're not actually doing it. And I was like, whoa, that's pretty, he's like calling it out here, you know, I'm feeling it.

And then he ends with, um, saying that these are not merely additions to your faith, but loving your enemies, this is foundational. And he ends with the parable of the builder who built his house on the sand. So I think there's a power of change of honoring people that we see as our enemy. Like in our communities and politically and globally, like when you see somebody actually care about someone who's different than them, like you feel it you're like that is not normal.

What are those people doing? Well, it only points back to the supernatural love of God that is boundless. And for us that has the rainfall on the righteous and the none. Yeah. And so I think we absolutely need to be doing that politically, nationally, globally and locally. Um, and I don't even think it's that hard.

I think we've just been told that we can't do it and we're too little. I don't believe it. Yeah, because all the great changes have come from a very small group of people who have not just said the name of Jesus, but like lived out the posture of Jesus. Yeah. I think we can do it. 

DJ Heyward: [00:32:56] Yeah. Thank you for believing in us because we need someone to. 

Jon Miller: [00:33:02] Yeah, for sure.

DJ Heyward: [00:33:04] So how has this, um, you talked about your family, uh, beautiful family. And, uh, how have they kind of taken on, obviously, this is like a, probably a family journey for you. So how have you guys, as a family, like, how has it been, you know, through your journey of transitioning and trying to transforming your mind, renewing your mind, and then also kind of raising two boys, um, inside of this world.

So how has it been. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:33:33] The last four years where have been really hard. And, uh, if you read my book, you'll see the photos of these cute little elementary schoolers, because that's the ages that they were when we really started showing up for the first time to these marches or to these vigils, you know like.

Um, so I think that the greatest thing is that when I had come back from war, um, and just trying to heal and figure things out, I had these two little boys who were like, What's war mama. What's a gun. Did you use one? I think that, you know, a lot of parents can be like, oh, I don't know honey, but like I did know.

And so I think that God did a lot of healing where if I could explain it to my sons and if I could give my sons what I most wanted to give them in the world. That was me figuring out what this was. And so I always told my sons, I said, there's no such thing as good people and bad people. I'm like, God created every person, but we do have actions.

And everyday I'm like, you're going to think of little kids who liked it, hit each other with sticks. Okay. And so I was like, so everyday, like you have to decide whether you were going to use your, your hands too, to break someone's world in half where you're going to use your hands to build someone up.

DJ Heyward: [00:34:46] That's so good. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:34:48] So early, so early on, we took away this, us versus them, that like good guy, bad guys, bad guys, kill them. Good guys, us. Like we're, so we pointed out that like, God made people good. God loves us, but your actions, those are yours. And you have to be accountable to what you do with your actions.

And so I think that always allowed them never to like throw someone under the bus. They'd be like, well, that kid did that. I'm like, yep. That's his action. That's not who he is. Um, and then one of them like, you know, hauled off and hit the other one. And I remember hearing, um, because we're no longer going to do that old war mentality.

Um, so my ironed, my husband being like, why can't you hit your brother? And there's little sniffily, you know, older brother it's like, because it's wrong, wrong. And he's like, no, because he is God's son first. Yeah. He's God's son first. So. You don't get to hit him, you know? And so just rearranging how we relate to each other, um, changed my family.

And so the decisions weren't easy, but I also know that arming them with love to go out into this crazy world. Um, that is a freedom that not many people have. And I'm like, that is your faith in action that says it. Like you don't have to hurt somebody. When you're mad or when you're right. And that is submitting to God in a way that you won't see.

And so, um, and I have. I am raising my black son to know his worth in this world. And I'm raising my white son to work for justice because he's two things are connected, you know, like we're not one or the other, like we have this, um, this fullness that has to be worked out and made, right. Um, and we gotta be truthful about it.

So right now they're like, uh, 12. Yeah. They're like teenagers take no BS, you know? So like, um, trying to explain to them why the adults are doing what they're doing. Yeah. That'll, that'll put you on it. Um, but I also think that they have this, like, it's really normal that when violence happens or in the community, it's really normal for them.

They're like, oh, we're going to show up in the candles. Right Mom? And I was like, yeah. So, because we've been doing it since they were young, they see that if you, something bad happens, we don't have to be sad at home about it. We show up as a community and yeah. Yeah, they always sing. I don't know why amazing grace happened, but like every vigil I've been and we light candles and everybody walks away knowing that the light is greater than the darkness.

Yeah. And so I think that it's been, it's not easy, but raising them to be peacemakers and to show up has only given them more security that yeah, bad things happen in the world, but how don't got be scared about that, it will always happen because I know that we're going to show up with love. We're gonna show up to sing together.

We're going to show up and say that we want to build a better community where this violence doesn't happen to anybody's kids. 

DJ Heyward: [00:37:46] Wow. 

Um, it's incredible. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:37:48] So lots of long talks, but also lots of committing to showing up and. You know, you, you have to admit when things aren't right. If you can do that, then you can say, what does God want to write this?

And how do we get to be part of it together? But if you just act like it's okay, you know, that's, it's not helping anybody.

DJ Heyward: [00:38:11] Right. Or even like, I think sometimes. We, um, we to hide our kids from it. And, um, then I guess what happens, you know, they end up becoming 12 and 13 and they're being told it from all other places.

So I love how you guys have said, Hey. We're gonna, um, walk them through this while they're young. Um, and I'm pretty sure there's challenges ahead because teenagers not fun. So we're going to be praying for you, but yeah. Um, I love that. How you say, Hey, this is the thing that we're gonna be purposeful about and, um, have a part of our family and the ministry that you guys are doing together.

I think that's really inspiring. When I, when I heard, when I read that, uh, comment that your husband made about, uh, how you can't hit your brother, cause it's God's son, I'm going to use that. I used that yesterday, so that this is such, such a good thing. Just a good perspective of why. I mean, we have to treat people well, we have to treat them well because God created them.

They're created in his image. So when we are, um, um, drawing a line in the sand, um, we're seeing that, Hey, like I'm on the right side and that person is not worthy of, of what God has for them. Or like, I think that the worst part about it is like I'm removing myself. From the opportunity to be with God in whatever redemption transformation or him giving me a perspective that I've never would've had before.

And, uh, we rob ourselves of the life that's truly life. And I think that's the one thing that I felt like you have really found through your journeys. I mean, It is actually more full. Um, as I kind of moved towards people in our culture, kind of tells us we need to move away from people. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:40:02] Yeah. Our culture tells us that, um, people are dangerous.

We have to protect ourselves. And I there's this thing that I realized when I met, um, Owen Hassan who's in the book, but she was this catalyst who really dared me to believe that I had something extravagant to give instead of something priceless to protect. And I think right now our culture's dukes are up and we're all like protect, protect, protect.

Um, but I think they cause given us this abundance, like he has said, we have life without ceasing. We have all the love on the planet. Like there's nothing, he will not give us. So like shouldn't we be the people throwing it around like confetti being like, I got you. Like you don't have to be nice to me. I forgive you.

Why? Because I've been given this incredible love and I'm just going to pass it on. Yeah. Like that's my vision for the next generation. And for my kids is like, we're going to be the most ridiculously generous, forgiving, merciful people that people like, I can not offend a Christian. Like they just won't do it.

Jon Miller: [00:41:01] I love that visual, like, you know, throwing it around confetti. That's that's awesome. Which is a box of confetti gamma carry a box of confetti around with me. 

DJ Heyward: [00:41:10] I love you. 

Jon Miller: [00:41:12] You wronged me and it's cool. I think that's awesome. I love it. Um, there's something we're, you know, we're coming to the end of the podcast, but there's something really profound at the beginning of your book that I just really am curious about.

And I want to hear more about it. You said something along the lines of that. Uh, if you told the same stories, like 20 years from now that you might tell it a different way. Um, because as humans we're always changing and growing and becoming new people every day, or we should be, that's kind of how the Bible point shows us how to do it.

Um, can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that? And, and, and all of that? I would love to hear more. 

Diana Ostriech: [00:41:51] Yeah. I think that this is one of, this was one of the hardest things about being honest in writing a book about, you know, I'm writing about who I was when I was 23 and amen to the good Lord,

I'm 41 today. Um, and I'm grateful. For that. Um, so who I am today, isn't who I was, you know, back then 17 years ago, but I'm not going to shine it up and I'm going to act like I was better than I was, even though I am horrified about the things that I did. And I said, and I thought when I was 23. And so I think that is a little bit of what I'm saying there is that I think it's okay.

That we be brutally honest about our growth. Yeah. Yeah. Um, not everybody like, and I think especially as Christians, we should always be growing. So what we thought at 20, please, God, make it be different at 40, you know what I mean? Like there is more for us. So I think when I, when I wrote this, I had to be brutally honest about the things that I'm not proud of.

Um, actually hurts me that I took so little care for a lot of people in the world. Didn't care about them. Um, but I had to be honest about that. And then at the same time, I'm writing about a, a snippet of time and that's not where I stayed either, but you can't put a little addendum on a book that says, hey, don't nail me to the wall because I've grown, you know?

So I think there's this humility. I can give myself an honesty and a humility that says that's who I was. And guess what? God still love me and yet did I think a lot of stuff that was pretty harmful. Sure. But if, if I can honor the dignity of the Diana of 23 years old, then I can honor your dignity of the person that you were when you were 23.

Like we don't have to brutalize each others, you know, like we can, we can hold the value that says I was just as love them. Then when I thought X, Y, Z as I am today, because God's goodness and his love of us is unconditional and unchanged. And it is a humiliating thing to accept that, to say, man, I can't do anything to make

God love more. And I'm not going to hide it from people from their judgment, from their criticism. And because I don't sit in a camp, I get double judgment criticism from every camp. Cause they're like, but you're not here. So now I'm that. So I feel like, yeah. I love that in 20 years, there will probably be even more that I can see in this story that God's writing.

And if I continue to move past, what's comfortable and love people that I don't already know about and don't care about because that's a truth teller that there are people that I'm not super, but I want to be, you know, I want to, I'll probably tell that story differently. And if I would have told this story, 17 years ago, I would have not seen a lot.

So I think that we can honor each other's places and not, um, not try to destroy each other's progress by being so horrified. I'm like it's normal to learn and change your mind and grow. And I don't have to dishonor the person I used to be, or the people that taught me that in order to grow, I can honor both.

DJ Heyward: [00:45:38] Wow. Yeah, that's good. 

Jon Miller: [00:45:42] Thank you you for sharing that and thank you for being with us here today on the podcast. I really am praying and hoping that this is helpful for many people in their journeys, as it's been helpful in mine. Uh, it's such an amazing opportunity to be able to meet you and to hear from you and just have this conversation.

So, so honored for you to be here. This is the beyond the lines podcast we recorded out of Central Christian Church in Arizona. And you can check us out at CentralAZ.com. Um, anytime you want to. So, uh, thank you for being a part of that. 

DJ Heyward: [00:46:11] Yeah. Thank you so much. I learned so much. Yeah. Thank you. 

Jon Miller: [00:46:15] And if you like this podcast, give us a rating on Apple.

That'd be cool.