Beyond The Lines

Reflecting On Mental Health | Beyond The Lines Ep. 17

October 06, 2021 Central Christian Church of Arizona
Beyond The Lines
Reflecting On Mental Health | Beyond The Lines Ep. 17
Show Notes Transcript

Join us this week on the Beyond The Lines Podcast as hosts Jon Miller, Clayton Eddleman, and DJ Heyward reflect on the past couple of episodes on Suicide Prevention, Addiction, and Central Christian Church's Through The Valley series.

Get access to exclusive content and watch the video podcast on our YouTube! www.youtube.com/channel/UC6sLXxSC0KKjrqL1cq6080g 

Show Notes:
How to Best Love People Dealing with Addiction: https://youtu.be/TIG2fop0QfE
How to Talk to Someone Considering Suicide: https://youtu.be/wQJYOvDFee4
Through The Valley Series:  https://www.centralaz.com/messages/through-the-valley-youre-not-alone
Lisa Jernigan Episode: https://youtu.be/ZMjoBsl9_6Q
Rooted: https://www.centralaz.com/rooted
Sonya's Rooted Testimony: https://vimeo.com/528446158

[00:00:00] Clayton Eddleman: Hey, welcome to the beyond the lines podcast. Uh, here at central, we believe that we want to love beyond the lines. And so the reality is, is that we all set up lines. We draw lines in the sand and say, Hey, I can love up to this point. Uh, or I, I can just get to there barely, but I can't go any further. I can't go beyond that.

[00:00:18] And so in this podcast, we want to talk about it. We want to say, Hey, how do we love beyond and go further. So I've got two of my friends here with me. I've got DJ. 

[00:00:27] DJ Heyward: Hey, Hey, how you doing? 

[00:00:28] Clayton Eddleman: I'm all right. 

[00:00:29] DJ Heyward: All right, sounds good. Excited to be here. 

[00:00:30] Clayton Eddleman: And I've got Jon. As well. And I guess I should say I'm Clayton. I don't know if I said that this is clean, the clean 

[00:00:38] DJ Heyward: The right in front of it.

[00:00:41] Clayton Eddleman: So we, on today's episode, we are kind of, uh, recapping and talking about, uh, two episodes we had with Mark and David talking about, uh, just kinda some suicide awareness, uh, for suicide awareness month, uh, talking with David just about his work and care's ministry. And. Kind of recovering from that and his story, and then even chatting a little bit about the, through the valley series that we've just been through as a church.

[00:01:07] So yeah, lots to talk about here. Lots of breakdown. What do you guys want to start? 

[00:01:12] Jon Miller: It is a bunch of incredibly serious topics that we went through and something I really appreciated about the podcasts that I got. Both David and mark. And about your Mark's talking about suicide prevention. Amazing. By the way, please listen to those, if you haven't already, um, and David talking about addiction, it's serious stuff.

[00:01:32] Um, but I also got to have fun with those people on the podcast too. And so, um, really enjoyable. So I'm hoping that we can talk about these serious topics today. Um, but also, you know, have fun with it, be together here and, um, yeah, not be told downers. It's a hard time for a lot of people right now. And we don't want to ignore that either.

[00:01:52] And we don't want to push people's feelings under the rug and say, no, no, it's okay. You know, you're going to be fine. Um, cause a lot of people don't feel like they're going to be fine and they don't see any hope in what's going on right now. Um, and we want to be a light. Um, but we also want to acknowledge like, yeah, here going through a lot.

[00:02:11] And I trust me, uh, it's been, uh, quite a couple of years for many, many people, and there's so many factors to that. Of course COVID but also so much more that could be going on in your life. So don't ever hear us say anything along the lines that makes you feel like we. Acknowledge your pain, like your pain is real.

[00:02:29] Um, and if you're going through something, we just want you to know that you're loved and that's a big part of our podcast here. Um, and that's, uh, why we're here. So yeah, that's, that's what I wanted to start off by saying. 

[00:02:40] Clayton Eddleman: Yeah. So one of the things I loved when we were talking about, uh, just David's story too, and I think even just being a part of this podcast has helped me and I'm hoping it helps our listeners as well, but like really understanding how to do.

[00:02:55] Empathize with people. Um, and David talked a lot about that and I don't know, for me, that's just been something that's been eyeopening. And I think something he talked about was just, you know, or maybe this is conversations I've had with him on the side, just working with them. But, uh, it's often so hard for people to see beyond where they are right now.

[00:03:17] Like there's no way out almost, it seems impossible. And even, you know, in this past weekend, Brian, uh, talked about that too, when we're looking at his story a little bit, when he's talking about depression and he's like, yeah, like it just, life didn't seem possible at that point. Um, and so I don't know kind of where I'm going with it, but that is just something that.

[00:03:40] Stuck with me senses, uh, trying to empathize more with people who are just saying like, man, I feel so stuck. Like, yeah, what do I do? And I mean, an example in my life, even I was talking to a friend yesterday and I'm just catching up with them and saying like, Hey, how are you doing? And, um, they had mentioned that, like, they, they're just going through a hard time and that they're, they're seeing someone they're getting some help for it.

[00:04:08] And I'm like, Awesome. And so I think without having those conversations with David and with mark, uh, like I feel like I'm prepared to be like, all right, dude, like, what do you need? Like, how can I just sit here with you in this? Um, how can I give you some hope or how can I love on you during this time? I would say the past the series, the past two episodes that we've done, that's been huge, like for my own heart and just the immediate response I can.

[00:04:33] Yeah. 

[00:04:34] DJ Heyward: I love how they, um, made it. I'm supposed to be marked just the idea that like, as the person who wants to support someone else, like you're, you're going to feel uncomfortable and it's okay. Yeah. And you don't have to have all of the answers. It's okay. Then a lot of it is just being willing to listen and to support someone.

[00:04:56] And what you were saying, like with your friend who came to you. Um, a lot of times when someone comes to us with that information of they're going through hard time or whatever, we want to make us more uncomfortable, more comfortable. So we say things to them that kind of dismisses their feelings in order for ourselves to feel they feel comfortable.

[00:05:17] And I think a lot of times we do it without. Recognize it right? Like, like we, we don't want to feel uncomfortable. So therefore we say things to dismiss the person, uh, just to make us feel better. And a lot of times we don't even know that we're doing it. And so we even think we're 

[00:05:31] Jon Miller: helping the famous phrases at least, you know, like if you broke your leg in a car accident or something, right.

[00:05:38] Yeah. That'd be like, well, at least you're not dead. Well that doesn't make my leg feel better. 

[00:05:43] DJ Heyward: It doesn't right. And it's the same thing, you know, with, with mental health, you know, we try, you know, we try to give people perspectives. It's like, oh, well, uh, uh, there there's someone else who has it worse than you, you know, it's a very common thing.

[00:05:55] You can think about someone, you know, in a different country that has a worse than you, but it doesn't have to do with someone's present mindset and you kinda painted a great picture of like th there, like people think there's. Out there they're stuck in a box or they're stuck in this place where they can't see.

[00:06:11] And it's not always up to us to pull them out of that space. Sometimes it's just up to us just to be with them in that space and not say anything as, as mark kind of said it in his, in his pockets, like sometimes healing is just sitting in silence with someone sometimes healing. Yeah. It's just offering a shoulder to cry on or, or whatever that may be, or tell me more, 

[00:06:35] Jon Miller: tell me more.

[00:06:36] What does that feel like? I can't, I, I'm not going through that, but what does that feel like to you? I want to know more about that. 

[00:06:43] DJ Heyward: Yeah. So then 

[00:06:46] Clayton Eddleman: yeah. Well, mark talked too about, um, this analogy of like the river of life, right. And how you're floating down it. And sometimes you just feel like dude, I'm drowning.

[00:06:55] And I think for us, even as, um, I mean, not just even as human beings, but as followers of Christ, when we want to say, Hey, we want to love people. Just being able to, to be willing to say, yeah, I'm going to put my hand out there for you rather than just like, ah, I'm not going to get involved. Cause I, you know, like topics like suicide at least, you know, growing up like, and in high school and elementary school, like I feel like it wasn't.

[00:07:21] Really talked about, and it felt so taboo and I'm glad in a sense that, uh, stuff like that is not necessarily taboo as much where it's, Hey, let's, let's talk about this. Let's address this. Um, because I mean, really it's, it's a life or death situation and you never know what you might be able to offer or provide for someone who's floating down that river.

[00:07:43] And you say. Let me just let me be here for you. Let me talk to you. Let me sit with you. Like you were saying, DJ. 

[00:07:49] Jon Miller: Yeah. It's something comes to mind and I feel like I want to share a little bit of what's going on in my life, um, to an extent, uh, because. That we've talked about here is often we can't understand what somebody's going through, unless we've actually been there, which in every circumstance is not going to happen.

[00:08:08] You're not going to be everywhere that somebody else has been. You're not going to understand fully. So that listening components really key, which fits with our podcasts. So well, because beyond the lines is all about listening and trying to understand somebody else's story. Right. It's all about that.

[00:08:23] And so that fits so well. Being with your friends, being with your family members who are struggling. And, uh, recently we learned that my four year old son, uh, uh, has autism. We just got him diagnosed, uh, in August here. And it's been, it's been such a journey with him. We've had suspicions, but we've never had the courage to get.

[00:08:45] And look for a diagnosis or something like that. Yeah. And we still don't have resources and stuff and, and people out there who, um, have been in that situation, they know exactly what they're going through. All of the assessments is like, but, uh, something I just was never able to put to words was how my kid was different than everybody else's kids.

[00:09:04] Um, and even now it's hard. And, uh, and what that's like as a parent, because I've always wanted to be a dad. I know it might sound weird to some people, but I've always just wanted, like, since I was 10, I'm like, that's one of my main goals in life. I want to be a good dad. I want to have kids. And, and that was just something exciting for me.

[00:09:22] And I, I recently came across this story. It's it's, it's old. Um, it's by Emily Kingsley, it's called welcome to Holland. And it's about finding how you have a kid with disability. And I don't know if I'm going to make it through without crying, but that's okay. Um, but I want to read it to you because I think it really fits along this line.

[00:09:39] It goes, I'm often asked to describe the experience of raising a child with a disability to try to help people who have not shared this, that unique experience to understand it, to imagine how it would feel. It's like. When you're going to have a baby, it's like planning a fabulous vacation trip to Italy.

[00:09:58] You buy a bunch of guidebooks and you make a wonderful plans. And you're going to see the Colosseum, the Michelangelo Dayla of David, the gondolas in Venice. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It's all very exciting. And after months of eager anticipation, the day finally arrives and you pack your bags in.

[00:10:18] And several hours later, the plane lands in the steward or the store just comes out and says, welcome to Holland Holland, you say, what do you mean Holland? I signed, I signed up for Italy. I'm supposed to be in Italy all my life. I've been dreaming of going to Italy. But there's been a change in the flight plan and they've landed in Holland and there you must stay.

[00:10:39] The important thing is that they haven't taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place, full of pestilence, famine, and disease. It's just a different place. So you must go out and buy a new guide books and you must learn a whole new language and you will have to meet a whole new group of people whom you've never met.

[00:10:56] It's a just, it's just a different place. It's a slower play pace. It's slower pace than Italy, less flashy than Italy. But after you've been there for a while, you catch your breath and you look around and you begin to notice that Holland has windmills in Holland has tulips in Holland even has Rembrandts, but everyone, you know, is busy coming and going from Italy.

[00:11:14] And they're all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life, you will say, yes, that's where I was supposed to go. And that's what I had planned. And that pain will never, ever, ever go away because a loss of that dream is very, very significant loss. But if you spend your life mourning, the fact that you didn't go to Isla Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special and very lovely things about holiday.

[00:11:41] DJ Heyward: Hmm was powerful. 

[00:11:44] Clayton Eddleman: Yeah. Seriously. 

[00:11:45] Jon Miller: And so it's this like sometimes I think, and this applies to a lot of things is like, everybody else is going back and forth from Italy or at least that's what it looks like. And they're like, wow, Italy was great. You know, how was your trip to Italy? And you're like, I don't know what that's like, honestly, you know, that's not been my experience and it's hard and you're still I'm.

[00:12:07] My son is very, my son's only four. And. You know, I, don't kind of what she said. I don't know if I'll ever get over the fact that this isn't what I planned. Right. This isn't what I thought of. And, and that's going to be something that's a loss of a way that doesn't mean I don't love my son. That doesn't mean that I, I don't cherish the moments I have with him.

[00:12:26] Um, but it's so different than anything I had expected. And, uh, I think. To be able to sit with people and whatever there Italy or Holland might be, you know, and listen, and try to understand is the best we can do. I mean, I can't tell me how many people have come up to me throughout our parenting journey and been like, you should read this book, this will fix the problem.

[00:12:49] Um, you're not disciplining him well enough. You're not doing this or that. Right. And it's just shame, shame, shame, like it's all our fault. Yeah, sure. We're not perfect parents. We are totally aware of that. No, there's something else up and you don't understand. All we get is these instructions instead of like, wow, you know, that must be difficult.

[00:13:07] You know, my, my kid, you know, so does that make sense? 

[00:13:11] DJ Heyward: Yeah. And if you can, like, you know, we talked about, um, Through the valley and just like dealing with hard things. And one of the hard things we deal with is grief. And that's what you're describing as you're grieving the loss of a dream that you, that you've had, um, you know, something that you wanted for your son, something that you wanted for, for your family.

[00:13:36] And that is as much a, uh, as a grief as, as anything. That weekend that we can have in our life when we, when we have to change course, um, like, like what you were saying. So inside of your grief, um, what are some good examples that you and your wife have experienced of people that have really come alongside you and really loved you?

[00:13:56] Well, um, how well, what does that look like for you? 

[00:14:01] Jon Miller: Yeah, I think the. The greatest support we are getting right now. And we're right in the middle of it right now is, uh, from people who have been through something similar. So they have. Uh, their kids aren't neuro-typical or they're, um, they have a disability of some sort and they're like, oh, totally understand all the, all the, all the hoops, you have to jump through all the different assessments, all the, you know, uh, sometimes mean insurance companies.

[00:14:29] And so, uh, and they have just. You know, been there to listen, but also to offer support, like watching her kids, uh, Molly said people watch, uh, our other, our daughter while she's gone off and do assessments and stuff. And that's been such a help as well. Um, uh, because it's just random times. And so that those are the main things is just like, um, I guess people who have gone through this particular thing, they, they understand.

[00:14:58] Yeah, no, this is, this is a loss and this is morning. And I think the worst thing people have done sometimes it's like, well, yeah, it, it, they at least phrase you're like, well, at least, you know, he has legs or something, you know, like, yeah. Okay. Yeah, he, yeah, he does have likes and that's something to be grateful for it, but we're still going through some stuff, 

[00:15:17] DJ Heyward: you know, like I love how.

[00:15:20] Answer that question. And the reason why I asked, because I wanted to hear what that looked like for you guys. And I love how you didn't describe any piece of advice. People have given to you as people who showed up for you, people who showed up to take care of your daughter and people who showed up to, to support, um, your wife and you.

[00:15:37] And I think that's just a really good example. Um, you know, for people who listen to this and want to know, okay, You know, the idea of being uncomfortable with someone's with hardship in their life, um, that you're listening to, um, how, how do you show up? And sometimes that's, it's show up period. Like that's it like just show up for, um, um, for, for the person.

[00:16:00] And so, I mean, that's, that's just, that's such a big thing. I want to piggyback off of your story with the story that, that I have, um, in my life. And so, um, when I was a few years ago, 2018, Uh, my father was battling with cancer. It was coming to the point where I'll make this story really, really short, but it was coming to the point where he was, he was going to lose to lose the battle.

[00:16:22] So my mom calls me one morning and said, Hey, like you guys need a book, a book, you know, book your tickets. And we had to, our boys were too, um, we just had the two boys at the time. Yeah. And so, um, obviously that's in your family and to scramble now they're little, you know, they're probably. Um, two or three and Zeke was a tiny baby.

[00:16:42] And so that same doesn't toast grandma. Oh, we got to pack all of our life up, basically chatting with the kids, you know how crazy that is. Um, all the things that they have is like this tiny person has too much stuff. Um, um, so like, like really. Um, sending us in a tailspin because we really weren't prepared, um, to leave.

[00:17:04] And so, um, we started to pack all of our stuff and this is when I was, um, um, at, um, you know, at a, at a previous job and stuff like that. And, and my staff. Uh, that I had on my team, uh, and I texted him, Hey, like, I'm going to be gone for the weekend. Like, you guys are gonna, you know, call this person if you need anything.

[00:17:21] Like, it looks like my dad's not going to make it. And they, and they just came and showed up and said, how, how can I help? They, they, none of them, I don't remember any of them, you know, really talking about. You know, w what was going on in my life, but they just came in and they played with our kids and they got us coffee and, and, and they just, they just, they just showed up like, period.

[00:17:43] And like, I don't remember any of the conversations I had with any one of them who came that day, but I do remember the impact that they had in our lives, because they simply showed up and I was able to, um, uh, to stay strong in that moment. Areas I needed to, um, because it had other people like holding me up as well.

[00:18:00] And I think as believers and Christians and people who, who are going to be in the lives of other people, which is going to be messy and hard and people around us are going to experience loss. Um, that is a really good. Example like yours of what does it mean for people just to show up in? Sometimes it's just, it's just really, really simple.

[00:18:22] So instead of you respond to your friend and like trying to make him feel better by, you know, dismissing his feelings or not really acknowledging them, um, really coming there, but Hey, I'm there with you. I don't really, I think it's okay to say, I don't know what to say. Um, but I just want you to know I'm here for you.

[00:18:42] And so this is just so. 

[00:18:44] Clayton Eddleman: Yeah, for sure. Well, and what I love to like Jon, and then you mentioned this in your story and DJ, I could maybe guess for some of the people on your story, but you're saying parents are coming alongside you who have gone through these same things, right? Like they've had kids who are autistic and maybe DJ in your scenario.

[00:19:04] Like some of these people who are rallying behind. They came alongside because they knew, Hey, when, when my family member was sick or whatnot, this is what was modeled or displayed for me. And so what's cool is like, we all have experiences and we all have stories. And while it seems hard and difficult in, in certain scenarios, like, man, like, God, why did I have to go through this?

[00:19:30] Like, I truly believe that like, God is preparing us. To come alongside someone and to love them and to shepherd them and do whatever is needed, uh, when they're going through these experiences. And, you know, David talked about that, like David's story, uh, David Willinsky, um, you know, he had, he'd gone through.

[00:19:50] Uh, just an insane story, you know, with battling addiction and, uh, what does it look like to, to get clean and then, okay, Hey, like I understand this is what, what God has called me to do in my life and like how he wants me to live now, how do I help people who also want to live clean lives as well? And so it's like, it's just so cool.

[00:20:10] And it's such a good reminder of each and every one of us has stuff. Whether it's family members who are passing away or learning about new things, Like we've gone through experiences. And in some day I believe we'll be able to come alongside people as well, and then help them out during those times.

[00:20:28] That's just what I gleaned. Just kind of hearing both of you share your stories. 

[00:20:31] DJ Heyward: No, that's really good. That's really good. I mean, we don't ever want to go through a lot of the things we have to go to only the things that help us grow and, um, that put us in position to help those who have gone through.

[00:20:46] Um, but just like anything God can use anything for. Good. And, um, do I think that he correct? Like killed my dad and no. Do I think that he caused this to happen to be no, but do I believe that he can use what happened to me? Um, in order to, um, Teach me something or to help me grow or to use my story, to help someone else.

[00:21:10] Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Like God can use any circumstances that we have gone through to help, to help someone else. And that's why he created a such greatest, uh, human beings of community. Like we need community, we need people around us. And as we seek to be like, Jesus, As we seek to, um, be people who support one another.

[00:21:31] We always say, love people where they are, you know, like just love them, where they're at. Like that's part of it. That's part of like, that's, that's part of it all. Like your story can impact someone else's story and, um, have them be in a better place. Maybe then. You know, when you're going through that situation, 

[00:21:48] Clayton Eddleman: so totally, 

[00:21:49] Jon Miller: or like a, you don't and I think a caveat to all this is that you don't have to have gone through that thing in order to be a good listener.

[00:21:57] Oh yeah, for sure. I recently just talked to somebody who was just struggling deeply. They lost a loved one that they'd known for so long. And, uh, it was like a year and a half since that happened. And they were really struggling. And I said, I didn't say much, honestly, like I just listened. One thing I did say was like, that's real, you know, that's, that is real pain you're going through and you're never going to forget them.

[00:22:21] Like you not like, uh, and what you're going through is. The valuable, but some people in their lives, he said, you know, was that they would say like, well, I'm glad that you're here with me. And, but like, kind of almost like pushing aside his emotions and struggles and, uh, not like recognizing like that hurts, you know?

[00:22:44] Like, but sometimes we can be like, oh, you can get over it. It's been a year and a half. You ha you can get over this moment. Or this is why people are all in different places. Can you listen to where they are? And allow them to be there because you saying get over, it will never hurt. It will never help a single person get over it.

[00:23:03] Not, I guarantee 100% will never help anyone get over what they're going through. It's just say get over it. Or like you think it's like, they should be in a better place after five years or 10 years or something like that. It doesn't matter what you think. This is what they're going through. So can you be a good listener and recognize that they're going through pain and even just that conversation?

[00:23:24] Of being listened to and acknowledged might actually make the pain feel a little bit better. Um, and this person expressed that as well. You know, I hadn't had anybody listen to me like this and hear what I'm going through and acknowledge that this is real and real pain and it helps a little bit to get it out.

[00:23:41] Um, but every time you say, get over it, you know, or at least, you know, you have your, your son or you, at least you have this or that. Um, again, that if you ever hear that coming out of your mouth, the lease phrase, just try to stop yourself. I do it too still sometimes. 

[00:23:58] Clayton Eddleman: Well, but this is still going well, right?

[00:24:00] Jon Miller: Yeah. Is there anything that kind of covers up over their emotion? Like what they're going through right now, the pain of the moment, uh, is not helpful. It, 95% of the time, it'll just make it worse. You know, I'm just making up statistics, but like, don't just try it. I'm not the best at, I still say at least sometimes, or know.

[00:24:19] Just talking to my wife when she has a hard day. Like try not to say, I try not to say, well, at least, you know, they didn't do this today. Not 

[00:24:28] DJ Heyward: helpful. Okay. The house is not burnt down. Right. At least we have a 

[00:24:32] Jon Miller: house that's just not helpful. So, um, I tried to just listen to where it applies to all aspects, everything that, you know, it doesn't have to be someone who's depressed.

[00:24:43] It could be somebody who's dealing with a different issue. It applies to almost every single issue. It's like just listening applies. That's what I'm reading. The more I'm reading about different issues, things that are going on in the world. Uh, the more I realized, like listening to. Well, the best option for most of these situations where people are hating and dividing and, um, you know, fighting each other, you know, listening is almost the best option and it's just powerful, even though it seems weak.

[00:25:09] And I think that's a big thing is like, it seems weak and you're like, you're not doing anything. 'cause that's that went through my head when I'm talking about this person is like, oh, I'm not actually doing anything. I'm just sitting here and listening, you know, like what, what good am I doing right now?

[00:25:21] But I had a, I had to push that thought aside, so I wouldn't start, you know, trying to fix these problems, um, so that I could listen and just be there with the person. And it does, it does help. Right. If I can encourage you in that way, it does help when you listen so much more than you realize. Yeah, 

[00:25:38] DJ Heyward: for sure.

[00:25:39] Yeah. So switch gears a little bit. Um, And you had a conversation with, with David Willinsky and he talks a lot about, you know, his addiction and his struggle. What, where do you feel like maybe some of the keys that helped him get to the other side of 

[00:25:56] Clayton Eddleman: that addiction? I think the thing that stood out to me the most was here sharing a little bit about his, just his story and like a time in his life where he was not doing.

[00:26:06] At all. And he had this gal at his church, um, who was just like really kind of like trying to dig deeper. And, you know, we, I think so often we go through the motions of, Hey, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. That's great. Like, awesome. Okay. Like you're passing in the hallway or you're walking by someone at church, but this is like, what struck me is that this gal was like really inquisitive and she's like, no, And like, really, like, how are you actually doing?

[00:26:34] And David kinda shared like his process, like that got him to be like, okay, like how, like, how am I doing? And well, no, let me open up and let me be a little bit more honest. Um, and so I think that's like, that's a great reminder for me personally, of like, not just trying to go surface level, but really trying to dive deep, but like really seeing how people are, because I think that is something.

[00:26:59] Means so much and can help people. Cause that's the reality as like David could have kept that facade and just said, yeah, I'm doing fine. But the reality is like a lot of people might be wearing facades. And I think Cal talked a little bit about it this weekend. You know what the mass like at the beginning of service, you know, we're, we're kind of hiding how we're feeling.

[00:27:17] And that was, I think the big thing for me that really was like, that's what got him on the right track. I 

[00:27:23] DJ Heyward: think. Yeah. One of the things I think about when it comes to. You know, um, in us putting a facade. And one thing I do know is that sometimes. If someone asks you how you're doing, they're not the appropriate person for you to go deep in to, to go deep with.

[00:27:44] And so sometimes the I'm doing okay is just, I'm doing okay to you. Right. You know what I mean? And sometimes I think what we need, and especially when it, when it comes to, uh, the gathering that we do on the weekends, uh, we call it church. Um, we need to have those people where we can see. Yeah, I'm not okay.

[00:28:06] Like, and I think that's the most, um, uh, important thing, you know, as we think about, you know, if first of all, if you're, if you know a lot of people at church and people, a lot of people know you, it's a really long day at church. If you're going to explain everyone, Hey, what's like how, how hard of a time that, that you're having.

[00:28:26] Yeah. Um, but I do think that like, it's dangerous when we don't tell anyone. Where everyone gets the mask and the facade, and then also for the, for the listener, being a person that is, that is, um, what's the word that is worthy enough to be that safe place. Right. And so, um, when I think about having a mask and for those of us.

[00:28:54] I attended a Sunday service or, you know, a life group, community group, Bible studies, wherever do you find yourself in with, uh, a group of believers, people who love Jesus, like you do, or, or maybe even, you know, different than that, like finding people, um, who are. Who are your safe place. And sometimes we have to be, you know, on our end for those who are dealing with stuff, like we have to be open and willing to allow people to be that for us.

[00:29:24] Now that's the dangerous part as well. Like we put on a mask and then everyone gets the mask and well, that's. That's th that's not appropriate either. And we have to be able to say, Hey, like, these are some of my people that get to speak it. I get to speak into my life. Not everyone gets to do that. Not everyone has the opportunity or the relationship with me to speak into my life, but there are certain people who do get to do that.

[00:29:47] And then I, when those people ask me how I'm doing those, the people that I need to say, Hey, no, This it's not going well. Right. And, and, and being, and being willing to see that. And then for those, those of us who are maybe on the other side, continuing to be people who are creating safe places for, for people.

[00:30:07] And so that, that may, that may be someone who's, who's random, that, that, that that's very possible, um, that you don't have relationship with this person. And then on the, off the cuff, Create a space and make them feel comfortable. I know people like that, who just like, when you talk to them, I think about Lisa Jordan is like this, uh, when you talk to her, like, you just feel like your guards are down and you know what I mean?

[00:30:31] And so I think, you know, there's some people who are gifted in that way, but I think we all can do a better job of like, Hey, I don't want to be a person that, that if a person was going to be. In a vulnerable position. Like I want to be the person where they can be. And I think that's, that's, uh, an important, uh, aspect of like not wearing the mask or, and all that kind of stuff.

[00:30:51] Jon Miller: Right. Uh, I think a big factor of that too, is like, are you able to accept people where they are. Yeah, no, whatever they're going through, whatever choices they're making, even in the moment, are you willing to accept who they are in that moment, despite maybe what you believe they should be, where they should be?

[00:31:09] And if you're able to do that, then you can be a very important person, uh, and be invited into the sacred spaces. Kind of what I always had a podcast with Lisa not too long ago. And she mentioned that I think is that being invited into sacred spaces with people and it only happened. When I, when they, a person knows even you, it can even happen in just a few moments of conversation where they know, wow, this person's going to accept me no matter what it's like, which is what Jesus would do.

[00:31:40] Right. He did that with countless people. The only people, he didn't, he didn't accept where the people who didn't accept other people. Yeah. So it's like a. And he couldn't stand them because they did not like the Pharisees, the Sadducees, they did not accept people where they were. You had to look this way.

[00:31:56] You had to be at this social status, you had to do all the right rules. And, and Jesus says they, they made all these burdens. And put them on people and didn't lift a finger to help them. And, uh, so often, uh, Christians have fallen into that category where we make all these burdens for people and say, you have to follow all these rules before we love you and accept you into our community and place.

[00:32:24] But we don't lift a single finger to help them, you know, in those moments. And in Galatians, I think I just mentioned this on a podcast, but like, it's like, it's just the verse I read recently. And there's like Galatians chapter four, where Paul was like, you are not too important to help people with their burdens.

[00:32:39] You are not like, it literally says, you think you don't have time. You're not too important. Like that person, if you want, you go be with them, you help them with their burden. You accept them where they are. And. You know, it's powerful, 

[00:32:54] Clayton Eddleman: you know? Right. I think like I'm seeing a few lines that people are drawing is like one of us saying, Hey, I'm, I'm reluctant to share, like, that's the line I'm going to draw.

[00:33:05] Like, I'm not going to be real with people. Uh, another one is, you know, I maybe I'm reluctant to even get into community. Finding some people where I can start to feel comfortable and start to share. Um, but even while you're saying like it, a lot of people are drawn the line of, I don't know if I can be a listening ear right now.

[00:33:22] Like I just, I can't do it. But, um, I think this is something that's so important and like, is that reluctance to jump into community because when you know, we talk about people who are, um, Able to share kind of how they're feeling or what they're dealing with. I find so often that it's the people who are plugged into community are like the ones that are able to, um, to do that so easily.

[00:33:49] And two examples are not to I'll, I'll just keep it a one. But one example that comes to mind is, um, and this isn't really a plug for rooted, but it pertains to rooted because it's kind of what came through. But, uh, you know, recently there is someone who. Church and, and passed away. And, um, what I saw that was so beautiful was this rooted group surrounding the wife, um, the now widow and saying, Hey, like, we want to love you and just do everything we can.

[00:34:19] And like, it's so easy to get. Maybe we just do the bare minimum, you know, like, Hey, like let's make a meal train and let's kind of just let's pray for you or whatnot. But like, these people are so bought in to caring for one another. Yeah. And so rather than having that, that line of saying like, no, I don't want to maybe plug into community or get involved in a group or, or try something like to those people.

[00:34:42] I would say I would encourage you like push beyond that line maybe because I think that's really what. That's where real life happens. You know? I mean, church happens every Sunday, but church in reality is the people who come to it. And the people who are surrounding you when, when the hard times come know the people who are standing alongside your son and you and your wife.

[00:35:02] Yeah. People in you when your father passed away, like yeah. That's where, that's where real life that's. Yeah, that's the 

[00:35:08] DJ Heyward: church. Yep, 

[00:35:09] Jon Miller: exactly. Yeah. And there's like a. There's times too, where like we, even before we got as there's diagnosis, for example, where we had friends in our lives, Who would sometimes say like, oh, we'll watch the kids whenever.

[00:35:23] But like when follow through with that, or, and it hurt, it was like, I know you actually don't want to. Cause it's hard. Trust me. I know. Uh, I get it, but you know, don't offer. You know, and not take the steps to help too. You know, like if you're not willing to sit with somebody or go through it, when it's hard, then you know, it might actually be more helpful if you are honest and be like, you know, I'm just not kind of offering that, that service or that help if I'm not really gonna follow through with it, you know?

[00:36:01] Cause it hurts. It was like, yeah. Okay. You know, like, Anyways. So, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:08] Clayton Eddleman: Yeah. I think one of the things, and maybe we can land the plane here, but I think I'm back on community and Brian Matlock shared this in this last weekend's message about depression, but when you're in community and you're going through a hard time, like you get to borrow the hope of those who are around you and say like, Hey, I can't do this on my own right now.

[00:36:32] You're floating down that river and you're saying, Hey, I need a hand. Like someone helped me please. Um, and like, that's the thing is like those hard times, they're not going to stop happening. They're going to continue to happen. And, uh, at some point you might be the person who's going through the hard time, but regardless whether you're going through the hard time, uh, or you're someone who knows someone who's going through.

[00:36:54] Like you can provide that hope or you can borrow that hope at the same time. Yeah. And community is like the best way to experience that. Yeah, definitely. 

[00:37:03] Jon Miller: And actually want to, I'll leave it in the show notes. I made a video. I make videos here at the church too. That's why I do this podcast thing. Cause I have.

[00:37:11] I have all the bike. I know how to push buttons, but, uh, uh, there's a video. I think it was the one that you mentioned a have a route at testimony. And if you don't go to central, you don't know what route it is. It's, it's just basically a really cool program that, uh, one of the main tenants of it is like getting people into community and sharing what they're going through together, wherever they are in their lives.

[00:37:32] And it's really cool. I've been through it a couple of times. And so it's awesome. Um, but I'm going to link the video in. Show notes. So you can check out her name was Sonya and, uh, she was incredible. And just like seeing like she, wow. Anyways, check it out. It's only a three minute video I made it. So, um, if that means anything, if that means anything to you it's so I would totally check that out just to see what it looks like to have real people come around you and love you in the midst of just the hardest tragedies that could happen, you know, and just in the middle of it.

[00:38:03] And so, uh, check that out. Um, Thanks for joining us today for beyond the lines podcast. Thanks for being a part of this. If you are liking beyond the lines podcast, make sure you're sharing it with your friends. Cause we want as many people to know this amazing stuff, uh, as possible as well, to see as our, you can get more people to see our beautiful faces.

[00:38:21] If you joke. Uh, yeah. So share it out. Give us a review on apple pie, apple podcasts, because for some reason that matters a lot to the old podcast algorithms. Um, so more people can see this as well. Um, those are my main plugs. Uh, what else do we usually say at the end 

[00:38:41] Clayton Eddleman: talking about central? Yeah. If you're in the greater Phoenix area.

[00:38:45] And, uh, you want to come and check out a service, or maybe you're just hearing about us for the first time. Uh, you can watch online as well, but I would implore you come and be a part of the community. Uh, and so you can check us out. Our website is centralaz.com. Lots of information there. Uh, lots of great resources as well.

[00:39:03] Uh, you can find the sermons that we were even referencing talking about for the, through the valley series. Um, just really good stuff, but again, thank you guys for listening and be a part of this. Yeah. 

[00:39:13] Jon Miller: Cool. Thanks DJ. Thanks Clayton. Thank you. Thanks guys. Have a good day, everybody.